Comments on: Swimming Efficiently http://www.theraceclub.net/aqua-notes/swimming-efficiently/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=swimming-efficiently Gary Hall Presents The Race Club Swim Camp Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:54:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Nico Messer http://www.theraceclub.net/aqua-notes/swimming-efficiently/#comment-191 Nico Messer Tue, 11 May 2010 07:14:24 +0000 http://www.theraceclub.net/?p=2265#comment-191 You're absolutely right about the kicking part. Both Gary Jr. and Popov were exceptional kickers! But the kicking part is getting more and more important for longer distances as well. Nowadays you see even a lot of the 1500m guys going a steady 6 beat kick the whole way. That's why you shouldn't underestimate the importance of kicking in practice. We have at least one out of every four practices with a heavy kick focus. You’re absolutely right about the kicking part. Both Gary Jr. and Popov were exceptional kickers! But the kicking part is getting more and more important for longer distances as well. Nowadays you see even a lot of the 1500m guys going a steady 6 beat kick the whole way. That’s why you shouldn’t underestimate the importance of kicking in practice. We have at least one out of every four practices with a heavy kick focus.

]]> By: Steve http://www.theraceclub.net/aqua-notes/swimming-efficiently/#comment-190 Steve Tue, 11 May 2010 01:57:52 +0000 http://www.theraceclub.net/?p=2265#comment-190 One thing you'll probably never see is a weak kicker with respectible 50/100M times. Take a jet engine for example, most of the thrust comes from the fan blades up front, yet the bulk of the engine consists of multiple compressor stages, among other things, for the added thrust achieved out the back end. Regarding Popov's ability to swim so quick, in my opinion, even though other swimmers were faster (e.g. Hall), calculated efficiency was what made him so tough to beat. He also exhibited some extreem levels of flexibility too which probably contributed to lack of drag. One thing you’ll probably never see is a weak kicker with respectible 50/100M times. Take a jet engine for example, most of the thrust comes from the fan blades up front, yet the bulk of the engine consists of multiple compressor stages, among other things, for the added thrust achieved out the back end.

Regarding Popov’s ability to swim so quick, in my opinion, even though other swimmers were faster (e.g. Hall), calculated efficiency was what made him so tough to beat. He also exhibited some extreem levels of flexibility too which probably contributed to lack of drag.

]]> By: Nico Messer http://www.theraceclub.net/aqua-notes/swimming-efficiently/#comment-135 Nico Messer Mon, 08 Mar 2010 10:30:26 +0000 http://www.theraceclub.net/?p=2265#comment-135 I think what they're doing (even at European Junior Championships sometimes) is they have camera placed all over different places at the pool (over and under water) with control points like the 15m mark. They then analyse most races (finals mostly) and hand out a paper with the times for each swimmer at the specific check points, stroke rates and from there they derive those other values. Had it done for one of my 50 free races. I think what they’re doing (even at European Junior Championships sometimes) is they have camera placed all over different places at the pool (over and under water) with control points like the 15m mark. They then analyse most races (finals mostly) and hand out a paper with the times for each swimmer at the specific check points, stroke rates and from there they derive those other values. Had it done for one of my 50 free races.

]]> By: Gary Sr http://www.theraceclub.net/aqua-notes/swimming-efficiently/#comment-133 Gary Sr Sun, 07 Mar 2010 03:25:23 +0000 http://www.theraceclub.net/?p=2265#comment-133 Stratocaster, I don't understand how they could derive power from video imaging, however, I still say that the difference in power between these swimmers would not surprise me as drag has such a huge influence on body speed. The power one generates from the arm pull is not just dependent on the power of the arm, but also on the force generated by the counter-rotation of the body and legs. The legs also move at three times the rate of the arms and capable of generating a lot of power. One can get great distance per stroke with little power or kick when swimming very slowly. At the speed Popov and Biondi were swimming, longer distance per stroke generally means stronger kick, holding in front longer and slower stroke rate. My guess is that Popov took fewer strokes than Biondi. Gary Sr. Stratocaster,

I don’t understand how they could derive power from video imaging, however, I still say that the difference in power between these swimmers would not surprise me as drag has such a huge influence on body speed. The power one generates from the arm pull is not just dependent on the power of the arm, but also on the force generated by the counter-rotation of the body and legs. The legs also move at three times the rate of the arms and capable of generating a lot of power.
One can get great distance per stroke with little power or kick when swimming very slowly. At the speed Popov and Biondi were swimming, longer distance per stroke generally means stronger kick, holding in front longer and slower stroke rate. My guess is that Popov took fewer strokes than Biondi.

Gary Sr.

]]> By: Stratocaster http://www.theraceclub.net/aqua-notes/swimming-efficiently/#comment-131 Stratocaster Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:04:17 +0000 http://www.theraceclub.net/?p=2265#comment-131 James: Underwater cameras are placed in certain sections of the pool and the view is “calibrated”. Then using video, you can make such measurements. Gary: “Swimmers with the greatest distance per stroke also have the strongest kicks” seems to imply the increase the power to go faster model used by Biondi. Popov used 30% less propulsive power to go faster. Visually, it may appear he has a strong kick that is propelling him, but such a reduction in propulsive power to go faster could only be accomplished by a significant reduction in drag. The whole boat is using less power to go faster, it’s not the arms doing less because the legs are doing more comparison. The 24 watts of propulsive power that Popov used converts to only 17.7 lbs. of force. James:
Underwater cameras are placed in certain sections of the pool and the view is “calibrated”. Then using video, you can make such measurements.

Gary:
“Swimmers with the greatest distance per stroke also have the strongest kicks” seems to imply the increase the power to go faster model used by Biondi. Popov used 30% less propulsive power to go faster. Visually, it may appear he has a strong kick that is propelling him, but such a reduction in propulsive power to go faster could only be accomplished by a significant reduction in drag. The whole boat is using less power to go faster, it’s not the arms doing less because the legs are doing more comparison.

The 24 watts of propulsive power that Popov used converts to only 17.7 lbs. of force.

]]> By: Gary Sr http://www.theraceclub.net/aqua-notes/swimming-efficiently/#comment-130 Gary Sr Thu, 04 Mar 2010 02:24:35 +0000 http://www.theraceclub.net/?p=2265#comment-130 That would not surprise me. Some of our drag is inherent in our shape, while some of the drag is induced by our body position and limb motions. The latter part can be reduced. What is so interesting about swimming is that it is a sport of compromise. For every feature that may help in one sense, it can also hurt in another. Irie, the japanese backstroke phenom, is an example of someone who has an ideal streamlined body, yet somehow manages to create enough power to be near world record times. I will say unequivocally that the swimmers who have the greatest distance per stroke also have the strongest kicks. Popov's kick was no exception. Gary Sr. That would not surprise me. Some of our drag is inherent in our shape, while some of the drag is induced by our body position and limb motions. The latter part can be reduced. What is so interesting about swimming is that it is a sport of compromise. For every feature that may help in one sense, it can also hurt in another.
Irie, the japanese backstroke phenom, is an example of someone who has an ideal streamlined body, yet somehow manages to create enough power to be near world record times. I will say unequivocally that the swimmers who have the greatest distance per stroke also have the strongest kicks. Popov’s kick was no exception.

Gary Sr.

]]> By: James Stuart http://www.theraceclub.net/aqua-notes/swimming-efficiently/#comment-129 James Stuart Wed, 03 Mar 2010 19:05:13 +0000 http://www.theraceclub.net/?p=2265#comment-129 He is so fast on 15m mark due to his powerful, bendy legs mmm its that correct or what? He is so fast on 15m mark due to his powerful, bendy legs mmm its that correct or what?

]]> By: James Stuart http://www.theraceclub.net/aqua-notes/swimming-efficiently/#comment-128 James Stuart Wed, 03 Mar 2010 19:03:38 +0000 http://www.theraceclub.net/?p=2265#comment-128 Incredible! how he do that? Incredible! how he do that?

]]> By: Stratocaster http://www.theraceclub.net/aqua-notes/swimming-efficiently/#comment-127 Stratocaster Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:35:49 +0000 http://www.theraceclub.net/?p=2265#comment-127 It was measured/reported in Swimmer Magazine that when Popov beat Biondi in that 50 free, Biondi used 33 watts of propulsive force while Popov only used 24 watts. That was 30% less force than Biondi to go faster! Really emphasizes the importance of reducing drag through stroke technique efficiency verses trying to increase power, since watts is a measure of power. It was measured/reported in Swimmer Magazine that when Popov beat Biondi in that 50 free, Biondi used 33 watts of propulsive force while Popov only used 24 watts. That was 30% less force than Biondi to go faster! Really emphasizes the importance of reducing drag through stroke technique efficiency verses trying to increase power, since watts is a measure of power.

]]> By: Nico Messer http://www.theraceclub.net/aqua-notes/swimming-efficiently/#comment-126 Nico Messer Wed, 03 Mar 2010 07:18:28 +0000 http://www.theraceclub.net/?p=2265#comment-126 That's most certainly something you have to take into account if you simply going to count the number of strokes each athletes takes for his race and not on the "raw" stroke rate. Another thing you need to be aware off is that just because Michael Phelps is able to stay under 12-15m off each turn, this might not be the most efficient and fastest way for you! It's not about how long you can stay under but how fast you are at the 15m mark. There's no point in staying under only for the looks if you loose 0.5s compared to your competitors over 15m. That’s most certainly something you have to take into account if you simply going to count the number of strokes each athletes takes for his race and not on the “raw” stroke rate.

Another thing you need to be aware off is that just because Michael Phelps is able to stay under 12-15m off each turn, this might not be the most efficient and fastest way for you! It’s not about how long you can stay under but how fast you are at the 15m mark. There’s no point in staying under only for the looks if you loose 0.5s compared to your competitors over 15m.

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